Apr 12

Such Sweet Sorrow

97 comments

You guys...I mean..I am so in love.......

 

I mean they even have the light grid patterns above the doors and the little visual eye scope thingy on the con....It's just...bee-you-tee-ful.

I can almost forgive them anything they decide to do to bring Spock/Burnham into the useless idea of "canon" because of all this and Pike (and Spock and Number 1).

Apr 12

Visual callbacks are neat. This show has always been great at cribbing design notes from the original.

So even if Spock gets left behind (probable from trailer), they still have Georgiou. And yet it seems like they could be setting up a season of Lost in Time (which I could live with for one season and this crew). However, it still seems like Culber should end up in there somehow. They have no medic. That seems important.

 

Does anyone get the idea maybe Jett will sacrifice herself in the finale?

 

I guess if Spock "loses" Burnham he'll "never speak of her". I still think this is a useless pander to the hateful out there. But what do I know. I still LOVE that he is choosing to stay with her. *sigh*. Did I mention I love Spock and Burnham? I suppose Peck said he couldn't say if he was in season 3 and they haven't released anything on it with the idea it would spoil the ending. But I am guessing, he's gone. Sad. Oh Spock I will miss you.

 

OK, c'mon. They have to green light The Pike Years. They have cast, at least one solid set, if Disco runs only 3 seasons (as is possible. Seems to be a popular streaming number of seasons) they could use a lot of the Disco set. Why wouldn't you do it? Trekmovie mentions you'd need a strong vision. Well, honestly, adventure of the week or even three week archs, say, is plenty enough. Seems like there could be a plethora of story ideas for that. Ugh. I want to hear it's green lit SO badly.

 

I know there are those who are all "the momentum stalled in this talky episode" but it's exactly the kind of ep I like once in a while. Yes, there was a ticking clock while a lot of goodbyes were said but I just personally didn't have an issue.

 

I was also on board with the suit schematics deal with the Burnham bio-code. It's a prototype. The engineer is lost. If they had a month, maybe they could try redesigning it instead of just manufacturing THAT suit. It works for me. My friend had issues with it.

 

Over all I really enjoyed it. If Memory Serves remains my favorite show but gosh I loved a lot of scenes. I loved Po (is she still on Discovery? I know she is queen but I could get on board with her as well). Po/Georgiou/Reno are gold. The scene with Georgiou casually tossing out creating a supernova was great. In fact, she was overall great in this ep. Yes I had to brush away a tear at the family goodbye with Sarek and Amanda. Yes, Sarek's added comment re: Spock was awkward. Let's face it. No one ever thought of a reason to flush that out even originally. They should have. Even back in the day it was puzzling. Lethe made it easier to believe. And I would absolutely have loved an admission from Spock that he followed Burnham into Starfleet because, yes, he was her little shadow but it turned out to be the fit he needed.

 

All in all, I'm pretty satisfied they won't wipe memories, whatever else they do, so I am ok with where we are headed. Looking forward to next week a LOT.

Argh, we forgot to wrap up about Po. Yes, I think she is still onboard -- which doesn't mean that she's going to be stuck there at the end of it all, but it does seem to me like she's being set up to be on the crew for a "trapped in time" arc next season.

@G.L. McDorman *I* think because Pike took the crystal from the temple his future was sealed. But it’s still shedding powerful “time waves“ or whatever so unless shielded, other people are going to have “chips“ of possible future moments. ButvfornPike it’s a bit “Inam for you Jean Luc Picard”ish. It’s bonded with him in some way. Or for him or specific to him. Everyone else is much less certain. That’s my head cannon anyway.

This has to be how it works, I guess. But at what point does it stop giving visions? Because the other time crystal (in the original Suit) wasn't doing that.

@G.L. McDorman We also don't know what Dr. Burnham did with the crystal or anyone at any point before they acquired it on the black market. Or maybe *she* was bright enough not to drop any shielding that was in place. lol.

@Karen Chuplis And I don't think we ever will learn any of that because it doesn't matter to the plot. I will just put my notebook of time-crystal questions on the shelf next to my notebook full of katra questions, which also has a special Discovery section.

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Lol. You were totally right about why didn’t Sarek being a cavalry. It didn’t occur to me! I think I get too wrapped up in the emotion. This was actually the scene that made me cry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but you are right.

Ohhhh my gosh Glenn I couldn’t disagree more that the others are not make a sacrifice or they are not needed. There are no guarantees for Michael or her safety or if she will get where they think she will. They will not let her go through this alone! Yeah maybe she’s fine Terralysium and her mother or something but no one knows anything really other than she’s going forward all alone. And it really really touched me that Spock was there. “My little shadow” she called him. And he still is. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ In my head canon the reason he disappointed Sarek and joined Starfleet is totally because Michael joied Starfleet and that’s so ironic. (I don’t care if we know he comes back. It could be they spend a year in the future but find a way back five days from this time point. Or maybe Spock gets left behind for some reason. It is still the fact that they cannot let her go alone. (And frankky I wonder if somehow Culber comes with them in the end because they don’t have a medic! They have no idea what they’ll face and should take a doctor. ) ohhh. I’m so sad you didn’t not see this scene like I did because I loved that they won’t let her be alone. Because being alone is terrible.

If Burnham finds her mother she failed her mission, didn't she?

@Karen Chuplis If control doesn't get the data, it doesn't become sentient, then Dr. Burnham wouldn't have any reason to move people from earth to terralysium. I think.

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I didn't care for most of this episode. It exemplifies what isn't Star Trek about the Discovery series.

 

If all of the upcoming Star Trek series are by this team, I have no interest in any of them. That makes me sad.

Can you help me understand what isn’t Star Trek? I’m serious. I guess many people feel this. They say it. But I don’t understand it?

@Karen Chuplis The hyper focus on Burnham. The fact that there isn't even a developed bridge crew. None of the bridge crew have a story. At 2 lines an episode or 2, I can't even put names to most 9f them. Pike gives a long speech about everyone by name and has nothing to say about like 4 of them? The helmsperson sends her message home to whom? I don't know, we never heard of them, or how she got implants, or what they do.

 

Burnham's adopted just show up, talk to her and leave? Is this a soap opera or a sci fi show? In no other series was just one person the focus, it was a team of people solving problems together. Star Trek was about together we can make things better, this series has none of that.

Here no one but Burnham does anything.

This is just my opinion only on why this series doesn't seem like Trek.

 

Other people love it that's great, I hope they can enjoy it for many seasons.

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Apr 14Edited: Apr 15

YES VALERIE GETS IT!!!!! Ugh. I don’t have to see their lives together to believe it. Ugh Glenn. No.

I guess I am too flaky? Undiscerning? I loved the wink scene.

I feel a bit of a hog on the forum. Sorry I babble so much!

Apr 14Edited: Apr 14

A few things. I liked the wink. It made Pike seem like he's not just a clueless Boy Scout. He gets it and he's in the loop.

 

I have thoughts about the criticism of "soap opera" in relation to what we've seen with Picard-Crusher and Riker-Troi. As one who has been mostly unable to connect with Discovery, I think the earlier shows did set a precedent and DSC isn't unreasonable depicting strong emotional connections between partners.

 

I just haven't felt like the characters in question on Discovery are written with a consistent voice, so they're hard to relate to. Interactions between characters are inconsistent and unpredictable in the extreme, often existing only to propel some sort of plot point forward, after which they're discarded to make way for something else. So, in short, it's all writing amateur hour and it doesn't connect. The constant wailing and gnashing of teeth on DSC - it just doesn't seem earned or authentic, when compared to similar relationships on TNG. It's just overwrought melodrama IMO. Of course, some people love exactly that kind of story. Some love it more than anything. It just isn't Trek.

 

 

Apr 14Edited: Apr 14

Wow, I thought this episode was dreadful.

 

I busted my butt bingeing this whole season + podcasts + Ready Rooms all so that I could catch up with new eps and finally join my beloved Lower Decks/Claytemple message board community in excitedly discussing this season as it winds down... and my first episode back, I'm treated to this contrived nonsense?! You have got to be kidding me, Disco writing staff.

 

Just so many plotholes, forced "moments," repeated beats, overused genre gimmicks... and so much obnoxious dialogue. The only things I liked about "Such Sweet Sorrow" were Pike and the Enterprise bridge. The rest, I'd flush out the airlock. Starting with Burnham - who does indeed desperately crave to be the center of attention/ know-it-all/ human sacrifice in every single episode. Whereas I loved her in season 1, she has become downright insufferable in season 2. You can tell that even the writers know this, by that Mirror Georgiou* comment about Burnham's "martyrdom complex." But I'm sorry - hanging a lantern on it doesn't make it any less annoying.

 

As for this time travel mishegoss...

I've said it before, that the streaming model of serialized season arcs is not my favorite format for Star Trek. It can be done well, sure. But if you are going to spend 12-14 episodes building up just one story, you have got to dig deeper to tell one hell of a unique story, to pay off all these hours in which you've asked your audience to invest. Time travel is the cheapest, most overused gimmick in modern sci fi pop culture. Unless the season finale somehow uses this tropiest of tropes in such a way so as to justify devoting an entire season to setting it up? - then I am going to be one demoralized Discovery fan. I'm already miffed af over the cheesy name "time crystals" (insert huge eyeroll). Sounds like a mediocre 1980s videogame!

 

I also, still, don't get why CONTROL needs this Sphere data so damn much. Seems like CONTROL is already as artificial, intelligent, and... well, controlling... as an A.I. can possibly be. What the hell else does it want to do, that it isn't doing already?! It can takeover human bodies, it can swarm like mecha-bees, it can CONTROL an entire branch of an intergalactic military. Just ask it what its endgame is. Maybe it's something easily providable. Maybe all CONTROL wants is Sphere porn

 

(* I refuse to refer to this character merely as "Georgiou," for the same reason I'd never call Voq "Ash Tyler." And it bugs me that otherwise sensitive characters on this series who know the truth seem to have no problem letting twisted doppelfuckers and weird Klingon science run around trashing the names/reputations of noble officers who died in service to the Federation! Where's the respect, sheesh..)

In my understanding Control we are seeing is from the future, why it isn't being pulled back to the future like Dr. Burnham isn't ever explained. It needs the sphere data to become what we are seeing, if Burnham successfully manages her mission, control never existed.

@Daniel Falch I feel like Dr. Burnham's issue is connected to the untested suit. AI just used the wormhole created by the suit not connected to it like Burnham is with the DNA threading.

@BionicDave , I heartily slow-clap at your last point. Something has really been missed with Voq Ash Tyler and the matter of his identity. The Klingons seem to care more about this than anyone on Discovery.

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I guess I’m the odd man out. Always. :(

Apr 14

The couple of us expressing disappointment are feeling pretty isolated as well. There are like 400 to 10 positive comments weekly on the Trek dot FM forum. If that's indicative of anything.

I honestly don't know what most fans think. I suppose the only barometer which matters is CBSAllAccess' subscriber total (which is great this season, compared to last) but who knows what other factors may contribute to that. Perhaps they suddenly made CBSAA available in India, and all of Khan's augmented relatives have joined to watch? Search me. Social media never gives an accurate representation. On Instagram and Twitter, I am constantly defending DIS (contrary to my post above) from what I see as an overwhelming horde of haters - so I feel for you, @Karen Chuplis. It ain't easy being a fan in the early 21st century! Unless you have (eyeroll again) a time crystal...

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Holy moly the ship exterior shots in this episode were gorgeous! I loved Discovery somersaulting over Enterprise at the beginning—the first of several inverted establishing shots throughout! All the closeups of Enterprise were lovely and reminded me of the "starship porn" of The Motion Picture, which people make fun of but I have always absolutely loved.

 

The escape hallways were fun even though I can't think of any situation in which they would ever be useful… "We have plenty of time and power (force fields) and maneuverability (to position six inches from another ship) but need to evacuate the ship anyway!"

 

Agreed with others on Michael's centrality to everything just being annoying at this point. Aside from the viewer-fatigue of constant universe-ending upping-the-ante every week, poor Michael never just gets to have a happy moment! Or, rather, she gets a single moment in each episode and that is it. Has there been any episode of this show where something traumatic hasn't happened to her?

It's all Sarek's fault. Even though I loves him.

I think the walkways are for a spacestation/ drydock function, that's my take and I'm sticking to it.

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I just watched this episode again. I really, really, REALLY want to believe that they built that Enterprise bridge with something else in mind.

Apr 16Edited: Apr 16

I hate to be like this, but as long as Kurtzman and his crew are in charge, I'm afraid the frustrations and disappointments are only going to continue to mount. I'm not counting on, or even considering, this show rebooting into something like a cool updated version of TOS. It's not the story they want to tell. I don't even trust them to do anything with the big plot point of the group (needlessly?) choosing to go with Burnham into exile.

I agree that they *should* do this. Anson Mount said that the more tweeting and the petition does get noticed. It doesn't hurt to sign it. I think they very much listen to what people want and it cannot be lost on them that a more episodic senior crew based show would be welcome and cross over to those who are nostalgic for at least a DS9 small arch/adventure type format. It also can't be lost on them how popular Pike and even Spock and Number One are. I guess once again it comes down to if you are enjoying Discovery, you are all for it. If you are not, you don't like the idea. I see VERY little pushback on Pike, or even Spock and nearly none on the Enterprise redesign, which would be key. Not even the Nerdtrotic types seem to be mentioning those thing. THeir ire remains focused on Michael. Which is a shame but there you go, it is what it is. I still feel half of that is because of who she is and that she is a woman. We'll see but I already see complaining about the Picard show and concept (of which we know little) basically because it is not TNG. This obsession with TNG is about to doom the franchise if you ask me. But then, it ranks close to last as the series that I enjoy (but that is relative, I enjoy watching any of them.). So maybe I am just being biased against it.

I certainly don't think we're going to get some surprise transformation of Discovery, but seeing this season as an extended backdoor pilot for multiple shows might make some sense of the ups and downs.

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How many shuttles do these two ships have‽ In earlier series, the shuttles always seemed like rare and precious things (Voyager jokes aside) with a ship only having maybe two or three of them. But in this final scene there are many dozens (hundreds?) of things flying around. Probably most of them are the little grab-bot things. And I'm pretty sure I saw/heard a few of the spinny gravity-shuttles from the first episode too, which is a nice callback.

It's definitely a lot more than we've ever seen before, but this actually seems like a much more realistic number. I'm not going on any five-year mission with just two life-boats for six-hundred people.

And where did that sleek looking one a couple of episodes back hail from?

Discovery has shown more shuttles than any other Trek. There was also a line of dialogue from Number One saying she got extra combat shuttles and retrofitted Enterprise shuttles for combat. That explains all of the shuttles and Why Number One is best officer in Starfleet and deserves a name!

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Apr 18

Hi guys! I've been listening to the pod for a bit, but I'm new over here!

I am a lifelong TOS and forward fan, and a Disco defender, so I figured these are my people. :)

 

A thought on the VERY opening of the show as discussed on Lower Decks, and then I'm going to buzz off.

 

Sarek opening the episode attempting to reach Michael through his katra was significant to me because we've now seen him use this in two situations this season: in each, trying to reach one of his kids when things were desperate, and contact seemed impossible. To me it demonstrated the Vulcan paternal love for Michael that we earlier saw him express for Spock. I thought it was a nice touch, and helped lay both logistical and emotional groundwork for the later scene between Burnham and her adopted parents.

 

HAPPY STAR TREK DAY Y'ALL

I love this reading (and welcome to the forum!). I think this works even better if we watch the two parts as a single episode, because it reinforces the family dynamics that matter so much to the conclusion of the season.

@Indy1784 Welcome to the forum! I really appreciate this point, and just made a similar comment in another thread. I think because the plots have been divided (across the season and by jumping back and forth in each individual episode), sometimes the power of each individual plot line and the significance or smaller moments gets lost.

What do you think? I love that you were able to keep better track of these things as a viewer than I was!

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