That was a mostly terribly disappointing episode. They wanted to write the confrontation between Burnham and Spock and that was it. Everything else was cheap and lazy storytelling imo.
They gave Commander Ariam the briefest backstory and killed her off. What a waste of a great character potential. So much of this episode was a copout I can't even start.
Personally I think that the episode purpose was only partly the Burnham /Spock interaction. It sets up a lot of things for the rest of the episodes.
The Control computer is the antagonist going forward.
There is the possibility of improvement in the Stamets / Culber relationship.
There is an opportunity for appeasement between Burnham and Spock.
I must say that as a veteran the lack of basic military discipline is glaringly obvious and jarring in many situations even given Pike's relaxed leadership style.
Totally agreed about the military discipline, and I have no military experience whatsoever! It's one of my longrunning semi-gripes with Star Trek, but then of course this is how it's always been (except for the general storyline of the 80s movies).
Though Star Trek (TOS and TNG) was my main childhood initiation into TV sci-fi, in the Internet era, Bablyon 5 and the 2000s Battlestar Galactica series did a great job of portraying how an actual military would function in a sci-fi context. And both of those showrunners, JMS and Ron Moore, were prolific in interacting online with fans and explaining aspects of their shows, including these military issues.
Having finished the podcast I have some thoughts on it.
I wish one of the writers was a history nerd instead of a literary nerd. When a senior officer interviews a murder suspect and states in private, Burnham doesn't get to just walk into the room because Burnham. That the Admiral did nothing about this was infuriating.
I miss Stamets. I would think that his current situation would make him incredibly more sarcastic as a protection mechanism not a super emphatic guy who talks to equipment. He needs psychological help.
Cmd. Nhan needs no redemption is this episode in my opinion. Reporting an officer with no evidence isn't going to get her far with Pike. Saru had a suspicion but didn't report it until he had proof in this episode. She saves the day, the ship and the future of the galaxy after everyone else just writes her off as dead. She is the hero here, not Burnham who can only put her own wants first.
There won't be any consequences for Burnham's failure here as usual.
That the sensors record multiple wavelengths and transmits it but it's not checked on until Saru does is a wtf? I would think verifying that it's not a hologram would be essential to certify an images authenticity, but I guess not.
Tilly was annoying at beginning of this episode. I get the need for humor but it was very unprofessional.
Airiam is a huge loss, and although I know that this is just something TV does, it's a real shame to suddenly develop an interesting character and then get rid of her.
And you're right about Nhan. It was just a funny choice to have her be watching over Airiam's shoulder while the ship is in a mine-field. Surely there's something else the security chief should be doing right now? Where's Odo when you need him?
@Glenn I really think that watching Ariam after she begins to be suspicious is exactly what a security officer should do and she follows this up by going on the away team to continue doing so and well she was right. As they were not being boarded or anything she should be free to follow her instincts.
@Glenn You guys said it correctly on the podcast. This character could have been a whole new angle for Trek storytelling and could have mined some real interesting territory RE: AI, augmented humans and the meaning of life. That potential is a big loss. I only see it as potential though. What we were actually given in relation to the character didn't amount to much. Now, we as viewers are expected to care as much as if they killed Sulu? If we're in for a whole military funeral and grieving shipmates, that makes me feel even worse for Pike's jerky science officer who was summarily killed and not mourned at all.
I can’t speak to the other points as I just disagree and that is most likely a matter of personal taste but I don’t understand the reference to “Burnham’s failure” here? Her failure to shoot her friend out an airlock immediately? This does not seem like something that she failed at. It was a tremendous emoptional burden. She is, as was pointed out, a person who won’t admit to the Kobiashi Maru scenario, for good or bad. I would been equally conflicted, maybe more. She a saver. She wants to save everyone always. I guess one could count that as disqualifying for SF duty but then again is it great to have people who will shoot anyone they work with out an airlock at a blink? I think that’s awfully harsh.
On first viewing, I was totally bamboozled by first Pike and then Spock telling Burnham to do it. So much so that I thought the gloved hand pushing the button was hers. And that look of anguish on SM-G's face . . . none of the other actors could match it. Burnham, the character, is not one to give up, not when there's any hope at all still left. I love her for that. And I love how SM-G plays her.
@pauladz@Karen Chuplis I forgot to mention this while recording Perpetual Infinity tonight, but Burnham is tested again when asked to let down the containment field and send her mother back to the future. How do you think she handles it for the second time?
Everyone wanted Airiam to live including Airiam. Airiam knew that wasn't going to happen and sacrificed herself to save everyone else. She physically couldn't kill herself, but I believe she would have. Pike took on the moral authority and responsibility for her death when he ordered Burnham to eject Airiam into space. This was Pike doing his job leading people into hazardous conditions and is one reason he is a great commander. When Pike gives her an order Burnham role was to carry it out to save more people. I wouldn't expect any SF personnel to kill their own people at a drop of the hat. In this situation Burnham didn't have time to wrestle with this. Burnham decided that her conflict was greater than orders given to her by Pike that is her failure as a subordinate in a hierarchical structure. She has done this repeatedly now.
I just think you are removing a whole lot of actual humanity in the equation. Meanwhile, none of the people, Pike, Nhan, or even Spock, had any of the same kind of relationship. I'm not saying they didn't care. I don't know. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one that Burnham was at fault here.
Guys.... look at the little sigh Spock gives here. It’s like Stamets unlocks him just a little. And that’s also why he gives his revealing little observation that’s as much about him and Michael as it is about Culber and Stamets. I just super enjoyed these exchanges.
That was a mostly terribly disappointing episode. They wanted to write the confrontation between Burnham and Spock and that was it. Everything else was cheap and lazy storytelling imo.
They gave Commander Ariam the briefest backstory and killed her off. What a waste of a great character potential. So much of this episode was a copout I can't even start.
Personally I think that the episode purpose was only partly the Burnham /Spock interaction. It sets up a lot of things for the rest of the episodes.
The Control computer is the antagonist going forward.
There is the possibility of improvement in the Stamets / Culber relationship.
There is an opportunity for appeasement between Burnham and Spock.
I must say that as a veteran the lack of basic military discipline is glaringly obvious and jarring in many situations even given Pike's relaxed leadership style.
Totally agreed about the military discipline, and I have no military experience whatsoever! It's one of my longrunning semi-gripes with Star Trek, but then of course this is how it's always been (except for the general storyline of the 80s movies).
Though Star Trek (TOS and TNG) was my main childhood initiation into TV sci-fi, in the Internet era, Bablyon 5 and the 2000s Battlestar Galactica series did a great job of portraying how an actual military would function in a sci-fi context. And both of those showrunners, JMS and Ron Moore, were prolific in interacting online with fans and explaining aspects of their shows, including these military issues.
Having finished the podcast I have some thoughts on it.
I wish one of the writers was a history nerd instead of a literary nerd. When a senior officer interviews a murder suspect and states in private, Burnham doesn't get to just walk into the room because Burnham. That the Admiral did nothing about this was infuriating.
I miss Stamets. I would think that his current situation would make him incredibly more sarcastic as a protection mechanism not a super emphatic guy who talks to equipment. He needs psychological help.
Cmd. Nhan needs no redemption is this episode in my opinion. Reporting an officer with no evidence isn't going to get her far with Pike. Saru had a suspicion but didn't report it until he had proof in this episode. She saves the day, the ship and the future of the galaxy after everyone else just writes her off as dead. She is the hero here, not Burnham who can only put her own wants first.
There won't be any consequences for Burnham's failure here as usual.
That the sensors record multiple wavelengths and transmits it but it's not checked on until Saru does is a wtf? I would think verifying that it's not a hologram would be essential to certify an images authenticity, but I guess not.
Tilly was annoying at beginning of this episode. I get the need for humor but it was very unprofessional.
Airiam is a huge loss, and although I know that this is just something TV does, it's a real shame to suddenly develop an interesting character and then get rid of her.
And you're right about Nhan. It was just a funny choice to have her be watching over Airiam's shoulder while the ship is in a mine-field. Surely there's something else the security chief should be doing right now? Where's Odo when you need him?
@Glenn I really think that watching Ariam after she begins to be suspicious is exactly what a security officer should do and she follows this up by going on the away team to continue doing so and well she was right. As they were not being boarded or anything she should be free to follow her instincts.
@Glenn You guys said it correctly on the podcast. This character could have been a whole new angle for Trek storytelling and could have mined some real interesting territory RE: AI, augmented humans and the meaning of life. That potential is a big loss. I only see it as potential though. What we were actually given in relation to the character didn't amount to much. Now, we as viewers are expected to care as much as if they killed Sulu? If we're in for a whole military funeral and grieving shipmates, that makes me feel even worse for Pike's jerky science officer who was summarily killed and not mourned at all.
I can’t speak to the other points as I just disagree and that is most likely a matter of personal taste but I don’t understand the reference to “Burnham’s failure” here? Her failure to shoot her friend out an airlock immediately? This does not seem like something that she failed at. It was a tremendous emoptional burden. She is, as was pointed out, a person who won’t admit to the Kobiashi Maru scenario, for good or bad. I would been equally conflicted, maybe more. She a saver. She wants to save everyone always. I guess one could count that as disqualifying for SF duty but then again is it great to have people who will shoot anyone they work with out an airlock at a blink? I think that’s awfully harsh.
On first viewing, I was totally bamboozled by first Pike and then Spock telling Burnham to do it. So much so that I thought the gloved hand pushing the button was hers. And that look of anguish on SM-G's face . . . none of the other actors could match it. Burnham, the character, is not one to give up, not when there's any hope at all still left. I love her for that. And I love how SM-G plays her.
@pauladz @Karen Chuplis I forgot to mention this while recording Perpetual Infinity tonight, but Burnham is tested again when asked to let down the containment field and send her mother back to the future. How do you think she handles it for the second time?
@Valerie H. She does it this time. But also this isn't certain death. and....there wasn’t much choice.
Everyone wanted Airiam to live including Airiam. Airiam knew that wasn't going to happen and sacrificed herself to save everyone else. She physically couldn't kill herself, but I believe she would have. Pike took on the moral authority and responsibility for her death when he ordered Burnham to eject Airiam into space. This was Pike doing his job leading people into hazardous conditions and is one reason he is a great commander. When Pike gives her an order Burnham role was to carry it out to save more people. I wouldn't expect any SF personnel to kill their own people at a drop of the hat. In this situation Burnham didn't have time to wrestle with this. Burnham decided that her conflict was greater than orders given to her by Pike that is her failure as a subordinate in a hierarchical structure. She has done this repeatedly now.
I just think you are removing a whole lot of actual humanity in the equation. Meanwhile, none of the people, Pike, Nhan, or even Spock, had any of the same kind of relationship. I'm not saying they didn't care. I don't know. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one that Burnham was at fault here.
Guys.... look at the little sigh Spock gives here. It’s like Stamets unlocks him just a little. And that’s also why he gives his revealing little observation that’s as much about him and Michael as it is about Culber and Stamets. I just super enjoyed these exchanges.