So. How did it only occur to me today that the entire Airiam and Burnham scene took place on Opposite sides of the glass like WoK. Did anyone bring this up and I only just heard it in my brain today?
My favorite little moment in this episode was the "high-five for cybernetics!" between Kayla and Airiam. Though I'm a little worried for Kayla (and VISORed transporter room guy!)… this could be a little foreshadowing, that anyone with cybernetic implants could get infected by Control. And maybe a little more retconning for why we don't see heavily modified people like this in TOS.
I am surprised at what a polarizing episode this seems to be. And not only that, people I expected to love it, are not thrilled and those who usually dislike eps pretty much seem to to like. Not at all an absolute, but this just seems like something I have been seeing a little more since Thursday. Very puzzling. I do know that there are people who are interested in Spock/Burnham (Me) and those who simply consider that background noise. That may have something to do with it. I consider it adding detail and depth. It colors the whole thing for me. I am more puzzled than ever what people want.
One thing that really struck me in this ep was young Peck's performance. I just really think he is a treasure and I honestly hope there is a Pike spin off so we can get more of this amazing pair. I am attaching a little mash up I made of Spock and how I right away thought of these two scenes together. Maybe it is just me, but it is seriously like seeing Spock a decade apart to me.
This was the best way I could figure to get it to you. Thought I could insert but I guess not! It does incorporate the sigh I was obsessing over up above, but it shows you WHY I obsessed about it. I always just love this entire scene, but I have clipped it down for showing the two in tandem. https://www.instagram.com/p/BvPHQ6Jld7A/
@Karen Chuplis Understood, but when any Trek series gets a thumbnail, the captain is at least front and center. This show wants to have things both ways though. It wants to pitch us the idea that it's super interesting and unique for putting the primary story focus somewhere lower than the captain's chair, while still running every world shattering new plotline through the character of Burnham. To me, if you commit to having a show primarily featuring a junior officer, which is what I thought we were getting, you have that officer struggling against the more mundane interpersonal workplace dramas and day to day life of a crewperson who only glimpses the big, galaxy saving political upheavals from the periphery. Maybe after a couple of seasons they get dragged into their hero moment, "Best of Both Worlds" style and we get the payoff of seeing them rise to iconic status. That would have been a truly new angle on Trek and could have been really interesting.
@Greg And then all the fans will accuse you of making a soap opera. I see that with people who are uninterested in the Burnham/Spock sibling issues. And other lines. Arguments about on both sides of all these issues. It makes me wonder what people really want. Then you have those who just want pew pew pew and more ships. Maybe it is an issue of having a very diverse fan base. I don't know the answer. I do know that in the modern shortened season, you simply cannot have a "Data's Day" episode for characters. You can't really have all that much poker playing for instance. And frankly, I can easily hear people complain, if they went to a planet of the week format, complaints of "we've seen that". I *do* think that would work with a Pike show because, one, that's what we are used to for the ship Enterprise and also Pike harkens back to TOS so well. But in general, I see arguments all over socmed against everything offered up. And then there is someone like me, who was totally against and anthology approach, but so many others wanted. I really do not know the answer.
@Greg For what it's worth, all this time later, I was also bothered by the "Klingons capitulate because L'Rell showed a picture of a bomb!" But with this and other fast-paced things in this show, I take the literal scene as a little shorthand for "and she proved it all later" thing that happens off camera. I love the other aspects of the show enough for this to work for me!
There were some good things in the episode, but I can't emotionally connect with this character's death. And now it looks like we're gonna have to endure the full funeral treatment and mourning next episode. Ugh. More Sonequa Martin Green facial contortions and wails of anguish incoming!
@Karen Chuplis It's great that it worked for you! I sure try to psych myself into feeling the same, but something always pulls me out of the moment. Not giving up though!
@Karen Chuplis For sure, not everyone, Karen. All the horror of what happened is reflected in B's face - that is the one image from the scene that I can't get out of my mind.
Airiam was able to interact rationally with the others right up to the end. That in itself made it difficult to understand what exactly was going on with her, and the decision to immediately space her. Frankly, we still don't know much about her and how she was augmented. She must have had a brain, but? she could also? store data digitally. She had a human personality which Control could squelch, and a body that could be controlled, too, but only under certain time and distance constraints. So much remains a mystery about her the emotional impact of her death is related to us by the other characters.
@pauladz It's sad to think of how much of her was replaced. It has to be kind of isolating. There does have to be some kind of "thumbnail memory" storage so that you know there are memories to retrieve from archive. I also don't agree about the criticisms of Burnham ignoring Nhan. 1) we see this device used all the time in TV but also 2) rewatching in particular for this, that scene was HOPPING. Maybe again it's wrong that Burnham is so desperately focused on trying to resolve the Airiam situation in a way that she also lives but honestly, is it that say Riker could have ran and saved Nhan and then also been containing the Airiam situation? I don't know. I don't think so. Maybe the fault is that it wasn't a four person away team. That seems as valid a criticism as "Burnham is a negligent officer".
I was trying to work out why the death of Ariam was so saddening considering the fact that we have basically only seen her in the background before and that for her sacrifice to have a meaning we have to be invested in the character. I have concluded that the writers did something quite clever here, they make us like her by association. By showing us her interacting with characters we love in a favourable way they attach the affection we feel for the other characters to Ariam allowing us to become invested in a very short time and hence creating the empathy required for the scene .
Yeah, I was gutted. This weekend was our first anniversary, so my wife and I just held each other for a long time after the episode, and it took a lot of work for me to speak about these scenes without breaking down. It's quite an accomplishment, really, because I almost always have a real contrarian attitude when TV writers give us back story in Act One just so they can kill that character in Act Three. But even knowing I was being manipulated, I didn't mind. I just regret that we've lost a character who could have helped us explore personhood and humanity.
Guys.... look at the little sigh Spock gives here. It’s like Stamets unlocks him just a little. And that’s also why he gives his revealing little observation that’s as much about him and Michael as it is about Culber and Stamets. I just super enjoyed these exchanges.
I also love that it may seem like a non-sequiter except because he does appear to be possibly talking about his anger he’s presenting it in a disassociated way by replying in terms that also apply to Culber.
Everyone wanted Airiam to live including Airiam. Airiam knew that wasn't going to happen and sacrificed herself to save everyone else. She physically couldn't kill herself, but I believe she would have. Pike took on the moral authority and responsibility for her death when he ordered Burnham to eject Airiam into space. This was Pike doing his job leading people into hazardous conditions and is one reason he is a great commander. When Pike gives her an order Burnham role was to carry it out to save more people. I wouldn't expect any SF personnel to kill their own people at a drop of the hat. In this situation Burnham didn't have time to wrestle with this. Burnham decided that her conflict was greater than orders given to her by Pike that is her failure as a subordinate in a hierarchical structure. She has done this repeatedly now.
I just think you are removing a whole lot of actual humanity in the equation. Meanwhile, none of the people, Pike, Nhan, or even Spock, had any of the same kind of relationship. I'm not saying they didn't care. I don't know. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one that Burnham was at fault here.
I can’t speak to the other points as I just disagree and that is most likely a matter of personal taste but I don’t understand the reference to “Burnham’s failure” here? Her failure to shoot her friend out an airlock immediately? This does not seem like something that she failed at. It was a tremendous emoptional burden. She is, as was pointed out, a person who won’t admit to the Kobiashi Maru scenario, for good or bad. I would been equally conflicted, maybe more. She a saver. She wants to save everyone always. I guess one could count that as disqualifying for SF duty but then again is it great to have people who will shoot anyone they work with out an airlock at a blink? I think that’s awfully harsh.
@Valerie H. The situations were similar but not exactly the same as Karen pointed out, and I agree with her that B didn't have to choose between life and death in this instance. She had the expectation, the hope, that she would see her mother again.
Thinking about all this a little more, wouldn't B be at least somewhat angry at her parents for "abandoning" her? Isn't that a rather common human reaction to the death of a loved one?
I've also been wondering about what exactly Leland did/did not do to cause her parents' deaths. I was expecting to learn the details of what went down, but I think the story has gotten past that point now. How much responsibility he bears depends on what he actually did or did not do.
@pauladz I think the logs went a long way towards dispelling anger at her PARENTS. Not necessarily at fate. But it’s clear her mother has literally been moving heaven and earth to try and undo it. Leland’s part was pure negligence he didn’t do something that would have kept the Klingons from finding them. That is maybe too cloudy but I’m able to accept it. And negligence isn’t really something that’s absolved in any crime so same here.
Having finished the podcast I have some thoughts on it.
I wish one of the writers was a history nerd instead of a literary nerd. When a senior officer interviews a murder suspect and states in private, Burnham doesn't get to just walk into the room because Burnham. That the Admiral did nothing about this was infuriating.
I miss Stamets. I would think that his current situation would make him incredibly more sarcastic as a protection mechanism not a super emphatic guy who talks to equipment. He needs psychological help.
Cmd. Nhan needs no redemption is this episode in my opinion. Reporting an officer with no evidence isn't going to get her far with Pike. Saru had a suspicion but didn't report it until he had proof in this episode. She saves the day, the ship and the future of the galaxy after everyone else just writes her off as dead. She is the hero here, not Burnham who can only put her own wants first.
There won't be any consequences for Burnham's failure here as usual.
That the sensors record multiple wavelengths and transmits it but it's not checked on until Saru does is a wtf? I would think verifying that it's not a hologram would be essential to certify an images authenticity, but I guess not.
Tilly was annoying at beginning of this episode. I get the need for humor but it was very unprofessional.
@Glenn Off-camera events there, but I definitely get your point. She would have been a fan favorite by now if that same origin was explored last season and further fleshed between then and now.
@Daniel Falch I appreciate this take on Nhan's actions in the episode! It's not something I thought of on my own, which I think is partly a writing decision with, as Glenn mentioned, all those campy peek-around-the-corner shots of her that get scattered throughout.
@Greg I agree here as well. I think that by and large, the show does character development really well. They just don't often take the time to stop, slow down, and write that development into the show.
That was a mostly terribly disappointing episode. They wanted to write the confrontation between Burnham and Spock and that was it. Everything else was cheap and lazy storytelling imo.
They gave Commander Ariam the briefest backstory and killed her off. What a waste of a great character potential. So much of this episode was a copout I can't even start.
@kev may@G.L. McDorman would agree with you on the military point, I believe. How does DISCO square for you with other Trek that also often throws military discipline out the window?
@Valerie H. I think that disco actually annoys me more than most. In TNG and DS9 people did break the rules and regulations and there were many instances of the shows giving us the miscreant having a one way conversation with their superior regarding their behavior. In disco we just don't seem to get that, no one gets dragged onto the carpet and given a dressing down for their failure to follow orders or for jeopardizing their crewmates or ship.
@Valerie H. It's not even military conduct at this point, its straight up work Professionalism. You can't work in a office with someone who behaves like Burnham does, its destructive to work flow and polite relationships.
So. How did it only occur to me today that the entire Airiam and Burnham scene took place on Opposite sides of the glass like WoK. Did anyone bring this up and I only just heard it in my brain today?
My favorite little moment in this episode was the "high-five for cybernetics!" between Kayla and Airiam. Though I'm a little worried for Kayla (and VISORed transporter room guy!)… this could be a little foreshadowing, that anyone with cybernetic implants could get infected by Control. And maybe a little more retconning for why we don't see heavily modified people like this in TOS.
Live-commenting the podcast here, just want to credit @Valerie H. for saying "BOILER ALERT" about tri-d chess scene.
I am surprised at what a polarizing episode this seems to be. And not only that, people I expected to love it, are not thrilled and those who usually dislike eps pretty much seem to to like. Not at all an absolute, but this just seems like something I have been seeing a little more since Thursday. Very puzzling. I do know that there are people who are interested in Spock/Burnham (Me) and those who simply consider that background noise. That may have something to do with it. I consider it adding detail and depth. It colors the whole thing for me. I am more puzzled than ever what people want.
One thing that really struck me in this ep was young Peck's performance. I just really think he is a treasure and I honestly hope there is a Pike spin off so we can get more of this amazing pair. I am attaching a little mash up I made of Spock and how I right away thought of these two scenes together. Maybe it is just me, but it is seriously like seeing Spock a decade apart to me.
This was the best way I could figure to get it to you. Thought I could insert but I guess not! It does incorporate the sigh I was obsessing over up above, but it shows you WHY I obsessed about it. I always just love this entire scene, but I have clipped it down for showing the two in tandem. https://www.instagram.com/p/BvPHQ6Jld7A/
There were some good things in the episode, but I can't emotionally connect with this character's death. And now it looks like we're gonna have to endure the full funeral treatment and mourning next episode. Ugh. More Sonequa Martin Green facial contortions and wails of anguish incoming!
I was trying to work out why the death of Ariam was so saddening considering the fact that we have basically only seen her in the background before and that for her sacrifice to have a meaning we have to be invested in the character. I have concluded that the writers did something quite clever here, they make us like her by association. By showing us her interacting with characters we love in a favourable way they attach the affection we feel for the other characters to Ariam allowing us to become invested in a very short time and hence creating the empathy required for the scene .
Guys.... look at the little sigh Spock gives here. It’s like Stamets unlocks him just a little. And that’s also why he gives his revealing little observation that’s as much about him and Michael as it is about Culber and Stamets. I just super enjoyed these exchanges.
Everyone wanted Airiam to live including Airiam. Airiam knew that wasn't going to happen and sacrificed herself to save everyone else. She physically couldn't kill herself, but I believe she would have. Pike took on the moral authority and responsibility for her death when he ordered Burnham to eject Airiam into space. This was Pike doing his job leading people into hazardous conditions and is one reason he is a great commander. When Pike gives her an order Burnham role was to carry it out to save more people. I wouldn't expect any SF personnel to kill their own people at a drop of the hat. In this situation Burnham didn't have time to wrestle with this. Burnham decided that her conflict was greater than orders given to her by Pike that is her failure as a subordinate in a hierarchical structure. She has done this repeatedly now.
I can’t speak to the other points as I just disagree and that is most likely a matter of personal taste but I don’t understand the reference to “Burnham’s failure” here? Her failure to shoot her friend out an airlock immediately? This does not seem like something that she failed at. It was a tremendous emoptional burden. She is, as was pointed out, a person who won’t admit to the Kobiashi Maru scenario, for good or bad. I would been equally conflicted, maybe more. She a saver. She wants to save everyone always. I guess one could count that as disqualifying for SF duty but then again is it great to have people who will shoot anyone they work with out an airlock at a blink? I think that’s awfully harsh.
Having finished the podcast I have some thoughts on it.
I wish one of the writers was a history nerd instead of a literary nerd. When a senior officer interviews a murder suspect and states in private, Burnham doesn't get to just walk into the room because Burnham. That the Admiral did nothing about this was infuriating.
I miss Stamets. I would think that his current situation would make him incredibly more sarcastic as a protection mechanism not a super emphatic guy who talks to equipment. He needs psychological help.
Cmd. Nhan needs no redemption is this episode in my opinion. Reporting an officer with no evidence isn't going to get her far with Pike. Saru had a suspicion but didn't report it until he had proof in this episode. She saves the day, the ship and the future of the galaxy after everyone else just writes her off as dead. She is the hero here, not Burnham who can only put her own wants first.
There won't be any consequences for Burnham's failure here as usual.
That the sensors record multiple wavelengths and transmits it but it's not checked on until Saru does is a wtf? I would think verifying that it's not a hologram would be essential to certify an images authenticity, but I guess not.
Tilly was annoying at beginning of this episode. I get the need for humor but it was very unprofessional.
That was a mostly terribly disappointing episode. They wanted to write the confrontation between Burnham and Spock and that was it. Everything else was cheap and lazy storytelling imo.
They gave Commander Ariam the briefest backstory and killed her off. What a waste of a great character potential. So much of this episode was a copout I can't even start.