Can’t wait for the pod! I looooved this episode. (Therefore I expect most people to not. Lol). One thing I now wonder given Airiam’s whatever it was that happened. Do you suppose someone is after the spore drive from the future and someone else is trying to stop them? I don’t think there is just one player (the Red Angel) at work here. ..... and I still think Jacob is going to play into this somehow. I know it was just one line but he said it with SO much certainty.
Totally loved the Sarek Amanda scene. Ive seen some complaining about her actions but I’m telling you the mothers I know would have done exactly the same thing. Her whole line about I don’t live under your authority was so brilliant. Queen! I love Amanda. And I loved the flashback of young Michael and Spock. Gosh so much more. Can’t wait to hear what you think. I watched drinking my Fredalia Tea. 😂
Ok overall agreed with The pod observations. Although I loved the quiet scenes and in fact found them quite foundational. I really liked Glenn’s ideas on the intro of Spock. For me I thought they were not going to be able to win for losing in the way in which they did it. There was no way it could be “the right way” for everyone so they did it in the way they needed or wanted to for the ongoing story (IMO). And yeah, whew, even in an existential crisis he’s sexy. Frankly the family dynamics story raised this episode for me to probably my favorite of the season.
Re: Georgiou...I don’t know. I think she genuinely has a soft spot for Michael even if the only reason I think she’d really go to the trouble of setting up that get away is because it did also serve her needs. But I thought that even in the scene in the exam room she was kind of trying to eye message Michael to not believe this guy. In fact, she did that “shake off” thing, just like when Ash caught her cooing at the baby when Leland told her to leave the room. So I actually really do believe Georgiou And not Mr. Take a spa Day you deserve it. I really think Leland may be a slick customer because no matter what she’s thrown at him, he’s never denied her claims. No, I also have no idea where that’s going. But I do not truly believe they are going to have a show with all villains.
Ash is definitely being given short shrift in Season two. I almost feel like he needs to be deconstructed again. Unbecoming who you are seems to be a motif in the season, certainly for Culber and Saru. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking that this has been planned for. We’ll see. If it is maybe you are right that Pike is playing him. Which I hope is true because it may go towards that end. I do feel like something needs to get through to him. Will it be a confrontation with Culber? But yeah. *sigh*. If there is one thing that has saddened me this season is this presentation of Ash since joint 31.
Oh, and am I crazy or is Michael doing pretty much the same thing Spock will do 10 years in the future? defying duty to go to Talos IV and save her brother?
Haha, yes! Right now it looks like we're going to end this season with four violations of General Order 7 with zero enforcement of the only death penalty in the Federation. I suppose it will take the drama out of "The Menagerie" for anyone going to TOS after Discovery, but I love the connection.
You have such a great eye for the physical acting! Georgiou is much more complex than the dialog often suggests, and I'm still really interested in her ulterior motives even if Section 31 seems like the Anti-Hero League of the Federation right now.
Do we know exactly when General order 7 went into effect? I kind of thought maybe this will give us a reason for it because the events of The Cage did not seem to be enough to me to install it.
@Karen Chuplis
This is from "The Menagerie." It's a terrible document because it doesn't even have a date, so technically we don't know when the order was issued. In this episode it seems clear that it happened after the visit in 2254 -- but since there's no date on this, it could be from a second visit in 2257.
@Glenn Jeez. I love how they keep identifying Spock as "half Vulcan". They don't say "Full human Captain Pike"! My eyes are rolling. ;D :D :D It's interesting they don't give a reason. I'm pretty sure they don't verbally either really because I always kind of wondered.
Also apologies that picture is so HUGE. I did not think it would post that way.
Yes, I got distracted whilst writing and forgot half the things I wanted to say!
I'm going to find some of that tea for the next Kelpien cocktail we invent, obviously.
Also, I think you are completely right about the two sides in some kind of temporal war. Maybe it's about the spore drive, but I'm kind of hoping it's connected to Enterprise ... even though I never really loved that element of the show.
@Glenn The New Mexico Tea Company makes it. They also have Harcourt's Jipper tea, which I hear is very fruity and VERY blue. I still have to get some of that. This one is very delicate and floral with a bit of lemony flavor. Nice.
So question, at what point in The Menagerie does the Commodore become part of the illusion. He had to be real at some point. They DO go get Pike. So when does the illusion start?
I think he's real the entire time they're on the starbase, but an illusion once they're on the shuttle.
I thought you all might enjoy a look at this essay that came out today. This is very similar to other posts I've seen around twitter regarding the idea that Spock has a kind of dyslexia. (I wanted to add, I do not find it odd at all that Sarek just assumes it was "taken care of" as opposed to him working through it himself. I love Sarek but he is not the most hands on dad ever. I have also in real life seen this difficulty between husbands and wives on a variety of issue that their children have had. One reason I really appreciated this scene. I also think it was set up well in Lethe that Spock *is* held in quite a lot of prejudice by other Vulcans, not just children and I think we've seen it reflected (rightly or wrongly) through most presentations of Vulcans since TNG. In TOS, we only ever saw Spock and Sarek as representing Vulcan's as far as I can remember. They have their own fair share of hubris and no mistake.) (sorry for the double post!)
http://www.womenatwarp.com/spock-learning-disabilities-and-traumatic-education/
Karen, thanks for sharing this! I was on a panel with the author at an SF con last November and was impressed. I also don't find it difficult to believe that two parents might approach their children (or any other problem) differently -- and that the parent who cares about the problem decides to just handle it on his or her own.
@Glenn And honestly it has always sounded like Sarek was *always* away from home. That's actually why I give him slack about his parenting skills.
@Karen Chuplis Yes, absolutely. I suspect that Amanda just smiles and nods politely when he asks about the kids every two or three months.
I came across an old interview with Leonard Nimoy in which he compared Pike with Kirk.
"Jeffrey Hunter didn't have the style that Bill Shatner brought to the role of the captain. We wouldn't have had the same chemistry with him.
Bill's aggressive energy made it possible for De Kelley and me to play our roles as a kind of comment on what he was doing - to play off of that.
Jeffrey Hunter was much more internalized and thoughtful in his approach to Captain Pike.
It was a combination of good writing and chemistry between the performers."
Fascinating, especially since Anson Mount is playing Pike in a very different way from Jeffrey Hunter, and this cast does have very good chemistry.
I can see this very much. Although we don't know how they would have developed Pike at that time with his renewed sense of purpose at the end of the Cage.
You know, I saw this brilliant poster Laz Marquez did for this episode and for some reason it reminded me how odd I have always thought it was people always referred to "Spock's Computer" fairly frequently in TOS. Given the new layer added....I could buy that Spock constructed his own operating system to see the world how *he* saw it and almost acting as a translator for some things.
That's a nice retcon! "Spock's Computer" is one of my favorite background details of TOS. It's easy, now, to forget there was a world without computers -- a world in which there would only be one person allowed to touch the computer on the entire ship.
@Glenn and yet, Kirk uses the ship computer a lot, but there are several pointed references to "Spock's computer". Granted a lot of those may have been early on. It still always led me to believe that he had his own special one. They mention it I know as late as "Miri". I realize it *is* a retcon but it kind of makes so much more sense this way.