Imma just spew out these points in no order. I could write a book I think. So much love.
So many things!!!
Amazing choice to have no music during fight scene.
Loved that Tyler appeared to be defending himself between attempts to just restrain Culber. That come back to Culber was a gut punch.
LOVED the cold open recap. Respectful. Owned the modernization of the era. Really worked as a bridge for me to modern Pike.
I love Spock. That is all. I just do. I think Ethan is going to land this beautifully.
Culber is so painfully truthful IMO. The scenes between him and Stamets seemed real and crushing.
Vina and Pike! That scene was everything. They had amazing chemistry and lent depth to “The Menagerie” like mad. Pike’s reaction when she came to him was masterful. Wonderful.
I think Michael and Spock have amazing chemistry.
Also the switching between past and present and child adult pairings changing constantly also spoke to me. We carry family hurt with us our whole lives. At least I felt them saying that. I think of a song I love “Be careful how you send me, be careful how you bend me. Careful how you end me. Be careful with me.” I know non-sequitur in a way but those lyrics seriously bloomed in my head as I watched. Brutal. Brutal. Brutal. (And I knew that would be the cause of the rift and fully expected to be underwhelmed. Instead they killed me with how sad it was).
Saru’s explanation and 100 percent sassy reasoning absolutely had me and my friend howling out loud. In fact she made me rewind so we could watch it again. Lol.
I could talk about every line and even if this episode and not praise enough. It is definitely my favorite Disco to date and will probably not be topped. It was like a gift I always wanted and didn’t know I wanted it.
Oh and you might enjoy this mini -thread by Disco’s ACE on the evolution of that opener. https://twitter.com/scottgamzon/status/1104114590000996352?s=21
Glenn! You are on to something with Hal control!
I do think the Tyler we love is on his way back. Or AN Ash. I actually like the Tyler Pike connection. And I thought Pike really looked after Tyler like “home project! (Rubs hands) I’m bringing this guy back into the fold”. And yes Tyler in the fight scene showed us Ash is still there.
You know, I’ve been in a position where I knew my sister didn’t mean something she said but to this day I have a hard spot in my heart about it. And it was not nearly as bad as what Michael did to Spock. I mean that was so so brutal. “I don’t want a freak for a brother” “I don’t want you in my life” “you weird little halfbreed”. “Weird freak halfbreed” those are really really harsh. I personally feel this adds a layer to This side of Paradise where it takes Kirk a lot of digging to get past Spock’s rosy spore haze bit. As Kirk heads into circus freak language and alternating between painting him as a computer and a distant cold weirdo (“cold distant moon?” Sound familiar?) and a circus “freak” that belongs next to the dog faced boy, Spock becomes completely unhinged. All very similar to this. I really appreciate that the writers extrapolated backwards to this scene. Whether or not people feel this was enough it has a solid footing on what deep in his heart will set off a rage in future Spock. But it also fits in perfectly with the story they are trying to tell.
I think what you said about Jett Reno applies equally to Jacob. I think we will see Jacob again. His “I know we will” (see each other) to Pike just really sticks with me.
I can’t believe you killed Spock! I just can’t. Lol.
Yes! I think Jacob (or somebody on New Eden) will be back, because otherwise why did the Red Angel send them there? At this point I'm convinced the Red Angel is getting the band of heroes together who will have to go the future to fight the Squids.
I love this connection with "This Side of Paradise." And I was the oldest in my family, so for me the painful memories of how being the cruel jerk who called his sister an "airhead" because she wanted to ride bikes with me and such. We're close as adults, but I wish the Red Angel would come and let me have a do-over, so this scene really got to me as well.
Also, my Smooch/Marry/Kill choices were secretly just about isolating Pike ...
@Glenn lol!!!
this must have sent echos through him
Thanks for the photos, Karen. It's amazing how similar the dialogue - or should I say insults? - are in two shows filmed over 50 years apart. I guess some things just never change. Wasn't the little boy playing young Spock the cutest thing imaginable? I'm glad he got over the Terrible Twos and stopped conjuring up monsters. I'm rather confused about one thing though: did Michael run away twice? I would love to have seen exactly how Amanda was able to locate Spock, get him back home, and secrete him in the temple/cave without Sarek knowing a thing about any of it. Hmmmm.
Loved this episode except for one scene which most people seem to have liked. The fight between Culber and Tyler. As soon as it started, I was practically yelling at Saru to act like a commanding officer and stop it. And I found the rationalization he gave Pike to be more sarcastic than funny. Those two guys have been through hell, let's let them blow off some steam, it's cathartic. And the next time they need to blow off more steam? And the time after that? Ahh, catharsis. It's worth it. ;)
@pauladz Smol Spock is so adorable. I really think they took that scene from This Side of Paradise and extrapolated backwards to this Michael/Spock incident. They said to themselves "How is it that these statements enraged the blissful Spock so badly". Because frankly even though he was blissful, he was still quite logical. So I think they took this as instead he was so insulted, he was completely triggered by what Kirk said. Yeah, count me in on I thought the fight scene really was actually brilliantly done because in the end it served the purpose of making that first confrontation carry the weight it needed to with such a happening, and it also brought Tyler kind of back into the fold. And buff as Culber was, Tyler could have laid him out fast. It was still a really desperate struggle, but you could see Tyler was attempting to restrain Culber, not fight him, which also adds to Tyler's insistence that he is not Voq he is something new.
BTW I reached out to Wilson Cruz on IG and said he might really appreciate this podcast and he responded he would listen!
Oh, wow, thank you!
I agree that this is best episode of S2 so far. All of the Talos IV stuff was great.
My only complaint is the Section 31 stuff. Having Gergiou give Pike orders and he follows them rubs me the wrong way. I have an opinion that the writers opt for the neat scene between characters instead of building a long term universe, keeping the little facts straight.
They also have less than zero military experience. I'm still having dreams about someone in my unit throwing his rank insignia at the CO ...
@Glenn That's a consequence of only having professional writers. None of them have been in the military or worked at anything except writing for Hollywood. It shows.
@Daniel Falch Right. Whereas everyone working on TOS had been in WWII, Korea, or both. It's actually a really strange phenomenon because we are at this moment still embroiled in the longest war we've ever fought ... but the war's very existence barely makes an appearance in our daily lives because it's being fought by a proportionally small and isolated class of people who don't come home and go into jobs as cultural producers.