I generally prefer to watch the show "blind" but I did stumble on the Ash-identity theory (probably on this very forum!) early in the show's run. And something that has always bothered me is the origin of Ash's backstory as discussed by him and Lorca in their chat while training on Klingon-shootin' in the disco-holodeck.
As a Seattle native, that conversation stuck with me :)
Presumably Lorca got Ash's background info from Starfleet personnel records, which means either: 1. L'Rell's house of spies managed to implant a fake Ash record in the Starfleet database, or 2. Ash Tyler was a real person who was captured by the Klingons and replaced. I would assume #2 is more plausible, but it seems odd that they wouldn't have mentioned "oh you're the guy who went missing" or something.
Any other possibilities I'm missing?
Whoa, I love it when obscure Trek details come together! Lol That is an intriguing correlation.
Defiant ALSO rhymes with Reliant - and Khan's baby Ceti eels look a lot like marinaded Kelpien ganglia!
Ok maybe it's time to put down Discovery and go get a cup of coffee.....
So, I just typed up this joke in response: "One of them is going to have to grow a goatee and join the Maquis." Then I realized that that DS9 episode is about a doppelganger stealing the Defiant ... the ship our heroes are currently looking for. Maybe it's not a joke?
That would be a doozy, does Burnham love the real ash tyler or the Voq/ash mashup can we confuse our main protagonist even more? The mashup is the one she fell in love with when she thought he was Ash but he is really her sworn enemy. The other she has never met but has the personality of the man that she fell in love with. Well disco does like messing with your mind so I wouldn't put it past them.
Well if we're placing bets on the question of seeing the real Ash Tyler alive somewhere down the line, I'll put $50 on yes.
Kev, we just finished recording and this is something we addressed, though not at as much length as I think we would have liked. It feels to me, at least, like the writers are closing the door on meeting the "real" Ash Tyler but not quite locking it ... just in case.
I think we will find that there was an ash but the process of leeching his mind over killed him. The fact that whole ships were destroyed probably means that he fell into the missing presumed killed category so no one would have been looking for him. He wasn't the missing ash he was the presumed dead ash.
I just laughed so hard it hurt. Also, it doesn't look like there's been a Toast of London podcast ...
I have made a startling discovery. Turns out Ash is not only Voq... but he is also... Clem Fandango!
You will never look at Shazad Latif the same way again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnBP_X4Zx-I
I’m not going to have a chance to watch this weeks episode until a few days later, but (as Valerie always mentions in the podcast) they’ll probably answer this riddle in the next episode! I can’t imagine spending much longer in the mirror universe without dealing with the absence or presence of an Ash doppelgänger.
Hopping on before we (potentially) find out more in this week's episode!
Like Glenn, I've always assumed we were dealing with option #1. Despite Yourself, however, did leave me wondering if #2 was a more likely option. Given the theme of identity, what would it mean for Ash to not only confront the fact that he isn't who he thought he was, but also that everything he thinks is real and belongs to/is unique to him is actually the rightful identity of someone else (someone else who has perhaps suffered greatly from whatever had to happen to him to allow Ash/Voq to take his place)?
Personally, our beloved Ash character is already dealing with so much, I think that he and his storyline could get bogged down by so many heavy extras, if #2 turns out to be the case.
I can't think of an option #3 or #4 right now, but perhaps tonight's episode will change all of our minds! (P.S. - I'm a UW alum!)
Until this episode, I had assumed it was #1 because we'd been told how good the Matriarchs are at spycraft. But now that the writers have hinted that we'll meet some Mirror counterparts, I'm less certain of that. From an audience perspective, I'm not even sure which I'd prefer. If the Ash Tyler personality is a complete invention of the Matriarchs, it might be interesting to see that invented personality struggle against the Voq personality. We could ask whether the Ash Tyler personality really has any right to exist if it's just something created by "real" people, much like we've asked over the years with Data and The Doctor. All of that said, I suspect that we might run into Mirror Voq somehow.